giardia question......

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giardia question......

Postby kattalystOSH » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:44 am

OK, so it seems we have giardia again - in both the cats and dogs. I treat everyone with fenbendazole, clean thoroughly, buy all new litter boxes, clean the yard, don't let the dogs drink from puddles, have negative snap tests......but it seems that it every year or two it comes back. This is our third time in about 5 years. We are on city / municipal water.

Do any of you use filters for water? Do they work?
Any ideas?? I am at my wits end here..... 3 dogs and 12 cats/kittens....no real diarrhea except a kitten, but the house is testing positive again.... :crying-green:
Is giardia just a way of life in multi-animal households??
-Julie
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Re: giardia question......

Postby StarSpangledAndale » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:57 am

GOD I HOPE NOT!!!! Pawnee contacted giardia last winter. Got it in my yard, in Michigan, in February! No, there was no thaw. It was a February from HELL. I don't think it got above freezing one day. Snow, snow, and more snow. Because it was February in Michigan, giardia didn't occur to either me or my vet until after two rounds of Flagyl, when the bad poops came back AGAIN.

By this time, it was early April. I treated EVERYONE (all four girls) with Flagyl even though the other three showed no symptoms, the proper dose for giardia this time (the first two rounds were not because we didn't suspect it, and of course it kept coming back). Then I treated EVERYONE with Panacur for three days. While they were near the end of the Flagyl routine, I sprayed the entire yard with a bleach solution. Then I washed everything with bleach. And a week later I repeated both.

For the next several weeks, I picked up religiously as soon as it hit the ground. Anytime there was a "soft" poop, I sprayed the ground with a bleach solution after removing it.

So far, so good. Pawnee had one day of loose stools in May, and I took her in for the giardia test to see if it had come back. Nope, still clean, and the bad poops only lasted one day.

I sincerely hope we are past it. And I don't every want it again!

Karen
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Re: giardia question......

Postby Janet and the Hounds » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:08 am

My dogs had giardia twice in the past year! This was the first time EVER in 15 years!!! I found this article that states once a dog has giardia they are a carrier for life. http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0119.htm
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Re: giardia question......

Postby StarSpangledAndale » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:16 am

I think that's probably true. But I think that virtually ALL dogs have been exposed to it and for most, they will never show symptoms. Pawnee was (1) a puppy and (2) in a new home. Could have just been enough stress to lower her immunity enough that it got hold of her.

I still felt better after treating everyone and the environment!

Karen
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Re: giardia question......

Postby Messyparrot » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:23 pm

Thanks for the info and link.

I know we have a family that comes to our walk in clinic that has giardia and between the 3 kids and their dog they can't seem to get it out of the house. Sounds horrible!
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Re: giardia question......

Postby llpoolej » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:32 pm

My vet says she is seeing way more giardia than she has ever seen in her practice. She isn't sure if the testing is just better or if its truly more endemic. I have had trouble with it and my yard is always kept clean of poop, there aren't areas of standing water(unless it is deluging) and its a regular clean suburban house. My vet is really puzzled as she says she is seeing it where she wouldn't expect it. She was shocked to see it come from my house(she comes to the house enough to know how I live)

I don't know. I have just started doing a 5 day thing of panacur at the shelter's dosage protocal ever quarter. My dogs travel enough that we could pick it up and bring it home including other parasites.
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Re: giardia question......

Postby kattalystOSH » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:51 pm

I am sorry others are seeing it - but I guess I'm glad I am not alone...... I will begin treating everyone again. Most of our animals are asymptomatic this time..... but everyone needs to be treated.
It is so frustrating.....
-Julie
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Re: giardia question......

Postby Janet and the Hounds » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:57 pm

StarSpangledAndale wrote:I think that's probably true. But I think that virtually ALL dogs have been exposed to it and for most, they will never show symptoms. Pawnee was (1) a puppy and (2) in a new home. Could have just been enough stress to lower her immunity enough that it got hold of her.

I still felt better after treating everyone and the environment!

Karen


This is also what happened here. WhoDat got it when he was a pup, treated all dogs, WhoDat tested clear. Then about 6 months later he had it again, and all dogs treated again. I think you are right about all dogs having the cells but not showing symptoms until their immune system is compromised from stress.
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Re: giardia question......

Postby Swiftcreek_Hounds » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:11 pm

Whoa....Giradia can be shared between animals and people? I know you're not suppose to walk in bare feet where the dogs stool, but I thought that was because of worms?
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Re: giardia question......

Postby StarSpangledAndale » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:19 pm

I think whether or not it can be shared between people and animals is a subject of debate. It wasn't believed that it could be. But then new strains popped up....

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Re: giardia question......

Postby Wendy » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:52 am

Actually I'm almost positive it can be transmitted to humans. My friend who manages a kennel has had giardia TWICE now, both cases were after they had positive dogs in :(
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Re: giardia question......

Postby paperflowers11 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:58 am

Giardia is indeed zoonotic, meaning it can be transmitted between people and dogs, but transmission is only fecal-oral! So wash your hands and watch out for doggie kisses on your face.

River just did a 5 day course of Panacur last week? Or 2 weeks ago? Hard to keep track with all the other stuff we've been dealing with (surgery, anti-biotics, NSAIDs, the occasional Benadryl, de-wormer). Anyway, they wanted her to do another 5 day round 3 weeks after the first round. Hoping we nail it, we're REALLY good about picking up poop. We have 5 dogs so we had damn well better be! The vet said not to worry about getting the other dogs tested unless they show symptoms. River hasn't had any symptoms either though. *shrug*
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Re: giardia question......

Postby kentruth » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:44 am

Just read an article about giardia being transferred from "human to human" via public swimming pools and NON-POTTY-TRAINED babies and their fecal matter, seems daycares with poor sanitation can be a major source/origin of outbreaks... so I wouldn't be pointing the finger exclusively at wildlife or fido.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia_lamblia

As difficult as this cyst is to deal with, what worries me more is the potential for creating a "super" version of it with careless or improper treatment similar to "strep" etc...
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Re: giardia question......

Postby whippets65 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:11 pm

It's been a pain at our house too - our dog yard looks like a golf course right now - and it's picked up routinely. But we all travel and visit others and go for walks, who knows where we are actually picking it up from. We also treat quarterly now with Panacur. Flagyl is proven to be much less effective on Giardia on it's own.
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Re: giardia question......

Postby Stickdogs » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:13 pm

I think a water filtration system won't hurt. Even a good quality faucet mounted one is quick to do. We have a whole house water filter system (Omni) and a faucet mounted filter (Pur). The whole house filter (we installed it ourselves) unit removes cryptosporidium, giardia cysts, bacteria, sediments and other by products. It does a good job (got pictures to prove it :? :puke-right:) and the faucet mounted is back-up. Still, I've battled confirmed bouts of giardia. Saw it through the microscope- weird looking animal! So it's not coming from the drinking water as much as what the dogs came in contact with while out for walks. (I do not allow drinking from unknown water sources.) We always seem to get a case after heavy rains. Lately, we've had barely to no rain so I'm resting easy. :pray:

Two years ago, both Shane and Sophie came down with the unknown squirts (and for Sophie vomiting at times). It started with Sophie (who was a pup then). She'd start to get better then Shane would get sick. Then right when he'd start doing better, Sophie would get it again. Then Shane. It lasted for almost 8 months! Their poo was not even hitting the ground as I would follow them around with the pooper-scopper and hold it under them as they went. (Poo is always picked up as soon as it hits the ground as Sophie is a recreational poo eater. :puke-front:)

All symptoms pointed to giardia even though after a million snap test fecals, no giardia was found. I even had a round of unknown queasy tummy for a week or so during the height of it. Coincidence? I treated me with Pepto. The dogs were treated on and off metronidazole for weeks. Which turn into months. Finally after several rounds of fenbendazole (Panacur), continued daily butt and body baths, bleaching of the yard (killed the grass), bleaching of the house (killed the carpet), bleaching my hands until they were raw and a change of food for both... it disappeared. Thank goodness!!!

I feel for you! Hopfully, all the runny poo will turn back to tootsie rolls and everyone will be content again.

Kristal
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Re: giardia question......

Postby saracen » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:18 pm

Well this is all pretty bad news. We had a Dobe get it once after falling in a Florida river. I'd been thinking it was strictly a southern climes problem.
Must add giardia to my 'worry list'! :(
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Re: giardia question......

Postby 3whippetmadness » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:16 pm

We had a big breakout of, we think, giaridia and/or coccidia breakout when I first got my 2 pups. We could never get it to come up in the tests/stools and giardia is SUPER hard to get to show up. My breeder told me to push vet to let me treat for coccidia 1st (as symptoms are similiar in each situation) and then when that didn't work, treat for the giardia. 1st round for coccidia didn't work but after pushing my vet at that time (to the tune of him yelling at me over the phone) he finally relented and BAM! after that treatment everyone "firmed" up and got normal stools again. I was desperate, I believe my female who was very neurotic when she came to me started all of this as I believe her immune system was compromised because of the stress of her coming to her new home. She had terrible diarrhea and vomiting of blood for a 24 hour period at the worst of it. All had the "cow patties" and HORRIBLE smell from them too.

If I have missed these next comments in some of the replies, I apologize but I don't think that anybody mentioned sterilizing the pooper scooper in a bucket of bleach water, that is leaving it IN the bucket between poop patrols (out of the area where the whippies are so they cannot get to it while outside on their own, ie: outside the fence). Change water everyday (real fun in the wintertime I'll tell ya!). Giardia CAN live below freezing temps.

Also, because Giardia is so hard to pick up on tests as mentioned, my breeder (at least 4 yrs ago) said there was only 1 testing lab in the US that was more sensitive to picking it up than the vet's labs. Can't remember where that was though. And maybe in the last 4 yrs there is better testing in the vet lab or more places around the country. RARELY does Giardia show up in vet testing!

Probiotics are great to give them while they are on these harsh treatments. I think my breeder told me to give them every other day while treating and every day after treatment for awhile.

Also, I was told that it is very common very dogs to have Giardia in their system as they have picked it up from the ground somewhere along the way (usually drinking contaminated water from feces but feces and food itself can be the reason for the contamination also) and it is pretty tough to completely eradicate it in their system and the environment especially if it is your yard and they can keep picking it up. The key is their immune system. But it is usually the first round when they are particularly susceptible to it and it is especially hard on them if they are immune compromised at the time (sick, stressed, etc.). But as said, some dogs may have such mild symptoms they just plug through it without you knowing or they carry it and show no symptoms.

Very concerning to hear of outbreaks over and over again with adult dogs like some of you are saying! Mine have not had an episode (or at least I'll say major "blowout") since that time. And my "nervous Nellie" Cassi still can be neurotic although she has come a LONG ways exposing her to new situations now and hasn't had a reoccurence.

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Re: giardia question......

Postby klw21079 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:18 pm

paperflowers11 wrote:Giardia is indeed zoonotic, meaning it can be transmitted between people and dogs, but transmission is only fecal-oral! So wash your hands and watch out for doggie kisses on your face.

River just did a 5 day course of Panacur last week? Or 2 weeks ago? Hard to keep track with all the other stuff we've been dealing with (surgery, anti-biotics, NSAIDs, the occasional Benadryl, de-wormer). Anyway, they wanted her to do another 5 day round 3 weeks after the first round. Hoping we nail it, we're REALLY good about picking up poop. We have 5 dogs so we had damn well better be! The vet said not to worry about getting the other dogs tested unless they show symptoms. River hasn't had any symptoms either though. *shrug*




How did River make out? I currently have a 5 month old - same thing.. no symptoms, but they put her on the meds for Giardia. I also have two other pups, so trying to make sure they do not get it. I pick up poop as soon as it goes down. Hoping these meds will kick it.
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